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MP3 vs. CD
#1
Well we already debated Blu-Ray vs. HD-DVD, and Netflix vs. DVD, so why not? Also I wanted to hear what anyone more audiophile than me has to say.

I've been digitizing my CD collection for easier listening in the car (my car is too old to have a CD player, only a cassette). And I have to say that I can't tell any difference in sound. I've played MP3 over the house stereo as well, and still can't tell a difference (although I did not try it with jazz or classical music). Admittedly I have some high end hearing loss from the #9 days. FYI, I my files are 128kbps.

I've been thinking about this since I recently read estimates of CD life at 10-20 years. Now I have a few that are about 15 years old, and they seem to be fine, but I wonder.... If the content were digitized, it could be converted to another digital format if one arises later.
the hands that guide me are invisible
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#2
If you digitize at a low bit rate, they just sound like crap...

Apart from that, there are so many things that contribute to how you perceive the sound. If you're in a car, aside from the quality of your car stereo, the speakers, the way you're hooking the MP3 player up to the car stereo, etc, if you're driving, you're not going to focus on the nuances of whatever you are listening to.

Also, if you're listening to stuff that's been in your collection for ages, your perception is going to be filtered based on previous experiences. ("Oh, I love this song..." it's playing more in your head...the stereo is more like a cue card).

If you really want to see if there's a difference, listen to a CD track and a ripped MP3 of the same track on some decent quality headphones.

Regarding digital formats and life-span, etc. If you are ripping LPs, or buying MP3s/AACs (ie: iTunes Music Store), you should save/convert them to AIFF (which is essentially an uncompressed format) and archive them somewhere safe. If they are DRM'd AACs (.m4p) then you have to burn them to an Audio CD format, then reimport them as AIFFs. Then if some future format comes along you've got the audio in a "raw" format that is pretty universal and should give you flexibility.

MP3/AAC gives you convenience/portability (thus the success of the iPod). AACs are a little better in this regard, but fewer devices support the format; MP3 is more universal. At higher bit rates, the quality loss from compression is acceptable for most use. I tend to rip MP3s are 192K and AACs at 160K. But I'll listen to 128K MP3s if that's all I can find. Heck, I listened to a crappy AM/FM clock radio for while and I still got into the music. Isn't that what really matters?

--tg
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#3
I am ripping everything to FLAC with MediaMonkey, then using that as my 'Master' to create 256MB MP3s for CD/MP3 players etc.

Oddly enough I don't own an MP3 player. I have gigs of music on my hard drive at home and work, my Treo has a 4GB SD card and my Scion has an MP3 CD player.

MP3s ripped at 128MB have too much high-end. Too bad I discovered this after ripping my 1500 CD collection at 128MB and selling most of it to Amoeba.
[Image: magpie13.gif]
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#4
I love downloading tunes from iTunes and listening via my computer, iPod, connecting my iPod to the port in my car radio.

The problem with most CDs is that I typically only like one or two tracks. With iTunes, I can download just the ones I want, without having to invest in the ones I don't. Audio CDs are just plain too expensive; always have been. 99ยข a tune -- that I can handle. Investing $15-20 at a time for a single song and the hopes that I might like some of hte other tracks is just not reasonable for me. And probably a big reason why it took me so long to expand my musical knowledge and appreciation to encompass the extremely ecclectic collection I have now.

Another problem with CDs is that I have to change them. The only time I listen to music when I'm at home is while I'm working at my computer. Simply more efficient if stored on the computer than played via the drive and/or an external player. When I'm mobile, I have to carry too much media with me. I used to try to do that; whenever I'd travel for business I'd take a carrying case with a bunch of CDs in it. And more often than not, forget to remove one from the car's CD player. Most of the cars I rent now have AUX ports so I can plug in my iPod...

Besides there's that whole instant gratification thing. If I want a song, I can download it now. If I want a CD, I have to get dressed and drive to a store that sells them and deal with the aggravation of in-person shopping.

I admit, I'm more likely to discover an unknown treasure of a song by getting the whole album rather than downloading a single tune and/or listening to the short "free preview" for other songs. For example, one of my favorite tracks on Tori Amos' "from the choirgirl hotel" is "Playboy Mommy," not the "hit" tune from that CD, "Spark." And I never would have found "Playboy Mommy" if I hadn't bought the CD. But that's definitely the exception rather than the rule.
Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes. That way when you criticize them, you're a mile away and you have their shoes.
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#5
OK, not really, but I do miss analog. With digital, the cut and paste ruins many compositions. Of course, I say that from the standpoint of mixing CDs which I make by cutting up and pasting other tracks. I also miss album art. Some CD packaging is cool, but it doesn't rival the album art of old and CDs are too small to extract seeds, as if we even have to do that anymore.

I only use CDs. This is because I need to control my music collecting. If you knew how much I sank into my Marley collection - and I know there's still more out there online - well, I just can't go there. If I allow myself the temptation of online music purchasing, that'd be just like heroin for me. Besides, I like wandering through record stores in the same way I like perusing bookstores.

Eventually I'll have to convert, but I'm really hoping to leap frog over MP3's and just skip to the next platform.
Shadow boxing the apocalypse
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#6
Well I've learned something already. I think ED hit it on the head with the trebly comment on 128kbps; I have noticed that, but thought it was my car stereo. So I may switch to 192.

And I agree with the Queen that it is nice to have instant access to the entire collection, but I have never bought digital files online. Like DM, I enjoy the shopping. I almost never buy new CDs, so I generally pay $6-10; if I do buy something new, I usually buy it cheaper on eBay, or wait for a 30% coupon from Borders, or use a Streetlight coupon if I have one. I totally agree that $18 is too much for a single CD.

I like used discs under $7 for taking a chance on stuff - even cheaper than $1 per song, and returnable for about 75% credit if it sucks.

So I'm not giving up on CDs, but I do like digital convenience and archiveability.

Maybe doing 192-256kbps MP3 for general listening, and FLAC or AIFF for separate archive files might be the way to go.
the hands that guide me are invisible
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#7
If you do get an iPod or other MP3 player, you can use a cassette player adapter to connect to your car stereo. This provides better audio than the FM transmitters which broadcast locally on an un-used frequency (often hard to find in major metropolitian areas).
My big error when I got an iPod was that I immediately started ripping my all of my CD's at both too lower a sampling rate and in Apples own format AAC, which doesn't have as many player options.
Now anything that I rip is always MP3 so that I can play it through the computer or Wi-Fi device that allows me to play MP3's from my computer through the stereo in the other room.
The great thing about my iPod is that it allows me access to all of my music while freeing up the space that a few thousand CDs occupied. Unfortunately this whole debate about formats and the fact that whether MP3 or AAC, unless I rip everything in a lossless format (and there still is no clear standard winner there), the CD is still better quality. So for now I am keeping all of my CD's, they are just locked away in storage.
Oh, my two issue with buying music from iTunes or other online sources are that they are not the same quality as getting them for CD and that you can't just move them from one system to another, one player to another. If I spend the money to "buy" something, I want the control of were is goes since all of these systems, harddrives, players will eventually break.
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#8
You could rip everything as MP3, and archive everything as .WAV files for backup, but it would take an enormous amount of storage space. But that is getting cheaper all the time, so it could be an option.
the hands that guide me are invisible
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#9
Yes, I could do that but while I am trying to consolidate computers and maximize storage, I haven't even started a project like archiving all of my music and I am already burning up more than 2.5 TB of storage.
The answer to your next question, no, it isn't "all" porn.
The problem with having this much crap is that that it is hard to actually backup. I lost a drive a few months ago and I don't know complelely what was on it, except for the one album that my wife wanted me to burn for her on CD.
Eventually I will re-build one of my systems with a RAID 5 disk array, but I have yet to get the energy to tackle that task.
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#10
Ha. Welcome to married life. Nice to have you posting here again, scapino. We've missed you. Welcome back.
Shadow boxing the apocalypse
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#11
Lady Cranefly has a ton of audio cassettes, but no player. I recently guided her towards purchasing a decent player to be used simply for conversion purposes.
I think I have all the hardware and software I need, but just haven't found time to start yet. In fact, the new cassette player is still in the box.
If anyone has any useful hints or gotchas I should be aware of, I'd appreciate the heads up.
I do have something called ADS Pyro A/V Link, which I've used to convert VHS tapes to *.avi files on the hard disk and eventually to DVD. Not certain if I need this analog-to-digital converter box for the audio cassette conversion to hard disk files, or whether I just need to plug audio jacks directly from the cassette player to the PC.

--cranefly
I'm nobody's pony.
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